NATS 2016 rules

[slowhk]

so if we are going by the usra rules in 27L and OMO at the 2016 nats .
so we can glue tyres in 27L and put glue down for OMO
so the top 8 quality's go in the the A main
as the rules were at the Nats last year ABBAABBAABB you have good drivers and bad drivers in one heat giving everyone the same advantage as it is straight out finals.
I think these rules will kill the sport and kill the 2 best classes that you can race on a budget
so if there are only 9 people one person races by themselves with no traffic or track call I wont to be the 9 guy LOL
what are other people's opinion's
thanks rick

[ozproducts]

Here's my 2 bob and I'm pretty sure my old man would say the same thing or at least agree, The only reason they glue there tires is for practice cause there's so many cars on the track they don't want people to hit them while there going around slow to run in there tires and in qualy they do this so that you can go hard from your first lap which is better. Now for Omo I'm pretty certain that everyone who races Omo here in Oz knows that all racing is done in spray glue and for gluing tires that only really matters with the big big hubs and gerding tracks if we were to run glue in opens then we would go back to square one and people would stop racing, the ONLY positive in racing glue is that you have less tire wear...

Kid Kaos

[slowhk]

ITS ALL ABOUT THE RACE FORMATE

[Bruce]

As a novice (not knob Andy) to these two classes of racing I have just assumed
that all raceways in OZ would race the ABBAA etc. way. At KW we always race this
way giving everybody an even chance otherwise in 1 heat you get the so called
'expert' racers and the next would be a clown race. Just because someone may not
do a great qualifying time it should not disadvantage them by being in the slower final,
otherwise it might end up most of the locals are in the fast/expert final and the out of towners
end up in the slow/carnage/clown race. Just my 3 bobs worth.
And Cody your dad is not old, he's of mature age!

Happy Motoring
(aka Mr Wilson) GGR

[slowhk]

That's what I am trying to say thanks for your opinion

[CAB77]

So here’s my view and why I have gone the way I have.

Firstly I have always run this method of top qualifiers to the 2nd race at my raceway. Not just in 27 and OMO but all classes. I have NOT just used this just because the USRA have gone back to it. I used that as a point to Rick in a conversation on Facebook. Both Rockhampton and Brisbane track’s used this same seeding order this year. So it may just be a Qld and USA thing.

My view is this allows people to go in the first race if they so wish. I know when I first started racing wing cars this is how I wanted it. I didn’t want to get in the way of the faster guys and ruin their race. I just wanted to go out have some fun and gain experience. I still see this with club racing at my raceway on a Friday night. New guys don’t want to come in and get beat by 50 laps in a 200 lap race. This also allows the faster more experienced guys to help the slower guys as required.

Also my view if we use a snake like formula it makes qualifying matter less. I understand the point that it gives everyone a chance to be in the 2nd race. But why punish the 2nd and 3rd qualifier. We all know the 2nd race is an advantage as it allows guys to drive to a pace. I know we want to encourage new guys to these faster classes but I can assure you that the turn off isn’t the Seeding order. It’s the cost and the steep learning curve and racing against guys with 10 plus years’ experience. I’m still learning. Please remember the last Nats in Queensland I didn’t even race opens. I was the Race Director. So I’m still learning compared to the most of you.

A fast time in Orange does not make it a good race car. We have all seen it at every race. It does not take a lot of driving skill to TQ in a wing car class. It takes a combination of so many factors. You might be a tenth off the pace in Qual but have the fastest car in Black and Red. That car will win more races then not. We all know this. So the 2nd race isn’t always the cleanest as it has the guys that have sacrificed handling for speed. Its risk and reward.

A point was made that this seeding order would also help locals. I find that not to be the case. In wing car classes the local advantage is minor. Specially here in Mackay. As we don’t race these type of classes very often.

Also the seeding order that is suggested by Rick, I had never seen used until the Nats and at the Brock. ABBAABBAABBAA If it is a 13 car race the 2nd top qualifier will be in a race of 6 first and the top qualifier will be in the 2nd race of 7. How is that fair??? I also took advantage of that at this year’s Nats in OMO and decided not to Qualify as that would see me in the 2nd Race. I was able to get 3rd just because of that. I exploited the rules to my advantage. Yes top and bottom can be exploited as well. If there are 2 guys racing together and they want to help each other out 1 qualifies fast the other doesn’t and they are in separate races. I’m sure I will be doing this with Chelsea.

My view if it was to be snake it should be ABBABABABA this way it always makes sure the top qualifier is in the smaller heat. My seeding order as it was suggested above if we had 9 entries it would not be an 8 and a 1. It would be top 4 in the 2nd race and bottom 5. This way Qualifying matters.

Every year we discuss rules at the actual event because it was not clear within the rules. I don’t care what the seeding order is to argue enough at another raceway when it comes up. That raceway owner has the right to make the rules as they see fit. I have made the effort here to clarify my intentions at the race hosted at my raceway. The rules are out early and they are there for everyone to read. If you wish to not come because of a seeding rule then so be it. I don’t agree with the snake format at other events but I will still attend. As best said on Stumpy’s shirt “JUST SHUT UP AND RACE”.

At the end of the day a track owner can't please everyone. I try me best to have a great raceway with a great atmosphere. For the most part I achieve this. I can't see a seeding order making that much difference to the racing results. Fast guys always find a way to win. This is why they are the fast guys.

[slowhk]

well if no one else is going to speak up I am out
I have 30 x open motors for sale and 20 spare arms
8 x27L motors and 10 spare arms
7 x open cars
4 x 27L cars
2 x wing 12 cars
8 x wing 12 motors
maybe 100 pair of tyres
about 5 new chassis
3 x controllers
2 x analysers
1 x hudy com truer
1 x tyre truer
make a offer or come and have a look
going cheap as leaving the hobby

[lindsayb]

My view on Ricks 2 points.

Glue on tyres

I don't recommend glue on tyres at all - if you allow it - I would simply over glue my tyres and move the car back to a strategic corner and artificially glue the track - not a good idea.


Race Format

9 times out of 10 the winner comes from the last race, especially as we tend to clean the track overnight for big race meetings. What we had before with scattered field allowed for relatively equal racing.

the top 8 into the last race be to the detriment of equalised racing - they are already complaining about this format in the U.S - it is turning into if I cant qualify into the top 8 why bother.

So can someone explain the logic of why we needed to change - it is a pity we cant just run one big round robin - all in the one race - with non runners to allow gaps for marshalling.

[slowhk]

thanks that's my point

[Lee]

I agree with Rick Bruce and Lindsay
The mixed racing order allows for the chance for any racer to Win!
If we take this away I think the winner will alway come from the last
Race
Why Change the format in our two biggest classes?
This can only discourage racers Not what's needed
we should be trying to encourage participation !
Lee.

[il cavalino]

I also agree with Rick, Lindsay, Bruce and Lee.

I believe the reason that 27 lite has been so successful apart from the steel chassis and two motor format is because of the relative randomness of the seeding which makes is more even for everyone and moving to a "fast heat" "slow Heat" format disadvantages the slow qualifiers and will discourage people from racing. This is also true for O.M.O.

Being a track owner, whilst I am not happy with the "fast /slow" seeding, Adrian should have the right to run the racing however he sees fit as he has put up his hand to host the Nats.

Also I may be wrong on this but I am pretty sure that Hornsby and Raceworld use the "Fast/Slow" format.

Geoff

[Bruce]

Even though we may agree or not with the decision, Adrian as track owner
and host of next year's nats has the right to enforce any rules (within reason)
he wants. Perhaps this should be discussed once the racing has been completed
and even put to a vote.
Rick, don't quit racing, I need someone to count how many times I come off
on red and black!

Happy Motoring
Mr Wilson GGR

[ozproducts]

In NSW we use the odds and even system. Only this year at the Nats . I used the snake system. Which will be used at the State Title s. Then from then on we will be going back to odds and evens
Wayne

[Stumpy]

Gentlemen,
I agree with Rick, Lee Lindsey and Geoff but,
Its Adrian raceway and he will run the racing as he thinks is best for his raceway and locals, even though i do not agree with the fast slow format. Maybe if you use this format why not run the fast heat first as the fast guys are supposed to be the better drivers and let the slower heat run second. just a thought.

Maybe things like this should be spoken about at the National Event.

Stumpy

[slowhk]

I think this format should of been brought up at the last nats when we were voting for the track to host the nats
I think this issue should be voted on at the nats as a lot of people are liking the ABBAABBA way ?????